Ratings kill sports games

[Sikwitit2]

Someone tell me I'm not the only one that thinks this. That there's waaay too much emphasis on ratings in sports games and that leads to way too much discussion and problems. Granted, I think there has to be some under-the-hood ratings for statistical integrity, but aside from that, nothing should be visible to the user.

Best example? All Pro Football 2k8, the only next-gen sports game to not use a ratings system.

What it did: It took all the players in the game and sorted them into tiers (Gold, Silver, Bronze, none) assigned them special abilities. Guys like Barry Sanders were gold. He had abilities like Branching Tackles, Cutback, Quick Feet, Speed Burner, Finesse. All of these abilities built him into a near replica of what he was on the football field. This versus someone like Earl Campbell: Branchin Tackles, Workhorse, Stamina, Power. Opposite abilities led to different running styles and different animations. They did this for every player.

Why it worked: Nobody complained about ratings. Period. Some people may have thought ____ should have speed burner, but aside from that, people didn't complain. Not to mention there were rare abilities that only a few guys had like Walter Payton's "Scissors" which allowed him to perform a scissor kick while he was running.

The best part? Discovering players yourself. You didn't scroll through guys looking at their overall ratings. You looked at their abilities, sure. But then there were guys with no abilities who just happened to be jacks of all trades, but you didn't know that until you put them on the field. There were guys who seemed to always be consistent or guys that did something very well, despite not having any ability.

Imagine if this was applied to basketball games. This would give super replay value to us virtual GMs as we discover guys buried on depth charts that come into the game and play solid defense or can't miss a three pointer. Guys that come in that we've never heard of that seem super athletic and block everything or hustle 100% of the time.

Our perception should be based on stats and in-game performance rather than ratings.

[detrimental]

Game ratings generally are based on in-game performance and statistics.

I disagree.

[Crippa]

Maybe I'm not quite getting at what you're trying to say, but personally I don't think they should be removed. The only games I play where ratings are significant is NBA2K10 & Madden10, and both those games have Gameplay Sliders that ultimately make the ratings useless or useful. With some great, realistic game-play sliders, I don't think you should be worrying about ratings of players.

Take Madden10 for instance. I've got a great set of game-play sliders for that game and because of this, the players ratings are pretty insignificant. They obviously have some effect but in the span of an average game, the two teams are much more evenly matched than they would be if sliders were set to default.

Anyway, maybe I'm trailing off into the realism of games and game statistics based on good slider sets, but if you are implying that ratings have a significant outcome on games, you need to look no further than the OperationSports forums.

[Sikwitit2]

Originally Posted by detrimental

Game ratings generally are based on in-game performance and statistics.

I disagree.

They are(well, some are) but they're incredibly subjective. And it doesn't help when there's say, only one guy, doing the rosters--2kinsider. His rosters notoriously suck. Ratings should be abolished and everything should be run by tendencies. NBA Live, for instance, is partnered up with Synergy (2k with 82 games) and with synergy, they can tell you what each player does in each situation on the court with percentages. This should also be used in determining if a shot is made or whatever.

Originally Posted by Crippa

Maybe I'm not quite getting at what you're trying to say, but personally I don't think they should be removed. The only games I play where ratings are significant is NBA2K10 & Madden10, and both those games have Gameplay Sliders that ultimately make the ratings useless or useful. With some great, realistic game-play sliders, I don't think you should be worrying about ratings of players.

Take Madden10 for instance. I've got a great set of game-play sliders for that game and because of this, the players ratings are pretty insignificant. They obviously have some effect but in the span of an average game, the two teams are much more evenly matched than they would be if sliders were set to default.

Anyway, maybe I'm trailing off into the realism of games and game statistics based on good slider sets, but if you are implying that ratings have a significant outcome on games, you need to look no further than the OperationSports forums.

I've been a member of OS for 6 years, I'm quite aware of ratings/sliders and their significance in games. The unfortunate part is that dedicated members spend hours and hours testing one particular rating or trying to get one thing to work right. NBA 2k10's sim engine out of the box was ridiculous. Simming through a season, you would see like 7 guys average 30+ ppg. CP3 never averaged over 7 apg. Sliders don't affect simmed stats.

In fact, sliders in 2k10 more or less work as percentages. 50 on the slider = 100% of the rating. You lower a slider to 45 and a player rated 100 in a category translates to a 90.

I would prefer if all games went to a APF2k8 like system with just abilities. Under the hood ratings would be fine to ensure statistical integrity. But there's too much emphasis on ratings in the games. Ratings affect trade logic, free agent logic, etc. There's not a whole lot of difference between someone with 88 speed and someone with 90 speed, but there would be a difference between someone with 88 speed and someone that had an ability called "breakaway burst" when whenever he touches the ball, he automatically runs faster with breakaway speed.

[Killa KMS]

As an apf owner i totally understand what your meaning and id be all for it.

[pongd]

if they just hid the ratings from you and renamed them into general abilities it would be the same. cant speak too much on it since i dont have apf2k8 but for all you know they are rated but just put into categories with no numbers. there are so many aspects of basketball its hard to just generalize who can do what. i like all the splits they have like shoot of dribble, on ball d, o/d awareness, etc...how do you break all those skills down into just a few tiers with certain abilities.

it may seem like the ratings have little effect but fact is we didnt develop the game so we dont know exactly how to use it the right way and what tweaks do what. but it seems like people no matter what are going to complain about the game out the box and make their own rosters, i actually think they enjoy re doing everything. ive given up on it and just play with official rosters now.