Artest signs with the Lakers - Jersey #37

[Zero Requiem]

Originally Posted by тояоито яаρтσяѕ

imagine this 5 on the floor together

PG - Kobe
SG - Ron
SF - Odom
PF - Gasol
C - Bynum

oh my gooddness

thats almost illegal.

[Chronz]

Kevin Pelton's thought on the switch

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=273
The worst thing that can happen in the triangle is for the ball to stop in one place. That’s justified for Bryant, but not for Artest. Optimistically, Bryant and Phil Jackson will be able to keep Artest’s worst tendencies in check, but pessimistically he could work against much of what the Lakers are trying to do on offense.

The success of the Los Angeles Lakers’ signing of Ron Artest, first reported in a major coup by CBSSportsline.com’s Ken Berger, all comes down to possessions. As in, will Artest be willing and able to use fewer of them? Artest was essentially dealt for incumbent small forward Trevor Ariza, which may be formalized if Ariza ends up signing with the Rockets to replace Artest. Last year, Ariza used 16.7 percent of the Lakers’ possessions while on the floor. Artest used 24.7 percent of Houston’s possessions, and has been over 23 percent every year since 2002-03.

If Artest plays to his tendencies, it’s hard to see where those possessions would come from, especially when he is on the floor alongside the high-possession Bryant. I’m of the belief that possession usage is in many ways as much a skill as anything else, not something that can be largely dictated by coaches. Using a ton of possessions is in Artest’s DNA just as much as physical defense or crazy quotes.

This would be OK if Artest was more efficient with said possessions, but his 51.2 percent True Shooting is well below average (and below Ariza’s 54.4 percent mark from last season, which he upped in the playoffs when he improbably developed into a lights-out three-point shooter). The Lakers are trading more efficient possessions from Ariza and other players for less efficient ones.

[D54]

Originally Posted by DeAdLyPoTaTo

save that crying for when that d54 guy comes in and calls us classless fans and blah bla blah

Well Lakers fans are classless but being clueless is the bigger issue. Don't know why the f*ck you would associate me with anything you said...that's hardly the sh*t I care about.

Originally Posted by Imadogg

Dude is the fakest rockets fan ever. I think he claims to be a rockets fan. He's more obsessed with us than anything.

If what you are to the Lakers is what you define as a fan I have no interest in being a Rockets fan.

lol at you...be sure to watch out for me kissing arse to anything Rockets just to prove it to you...the Houston fan charade is so important to me.

With the Mac an Yao situation what it is, this isn't the worst thing in the world. I was pretty shocked when I heard nonetheless. A year or 2 from now and it's the perfect move, but I may just be passive because of Artests importance last season. Energy and intensity was the biggest change for us last year and Ariza fits that going forward and well...I just loved him last year, only good thing bout having Laker games shown all the time.

[kaiji88]

Ron has been playing for a very long time and unbelievably he's actually a really intelligent player, he will fit into the triangle offense way better than ariza would have. Sure, he's done some dumb possessions regularly in Houston because he knows he was leader and obviously he would take it upon himself to win a game. In LA, he knows its Kobes/Gasol team and he knows he will get his shots from them.

And Odom will not ever start as SF because he can't shoot open shots. He's a full time PF. Ron will start for sure.

Originally Posted by Rockets1

What about that funny ass conflict between mbenga and mihm lmao?

And maybe it could happen if nobe keeps teeling artest what to do.

Remember when kobe pushed pau's head to wake him up in the playoffs? Imagine him doing that to Artest O_O

Now it will be Kobe AND Artest double smacking pau in the head. Maybe smacking Odom occasionally too. Nah but I see really good chemistry coming, those two just don't want to lose no matter what, it'll be deadly.

[detrimental]

Congrats, you've officially helped us become the dumbest basketball community on the net.

[arlubas]

Originally Posted by Chronz

You described Rodman perfectly but Artest has an offensive game, hes practically MR Ball Stopper and gets out of hand with his erratic shot selection, its the main complaint the fans of every team hes played for has. Defensively is the one aspect that players are pretty consistent with, they dont have to change much.

Ask yourself these 2 questions.
How did Rodmans game change in Chicago? Did Harper have to change his game when he got to Chicago?

Artest will not have the same freedom he had in his best seasons, nor will he be the main perimeter creator like he has been for every team hes been on.

But fine if you dont think people overstate it, you gotta admit hes going to have to confine his offensive game. In no way has he not been a major ball handler in every system hes been in. Either he or Kobe is going to have to change, possibly both.

First of all let's get this out the way from the get go. I didn't mean to say that Artest and Rodman have a similar game. It's very obvious that Artest can create way more havoc on oppossing defenses than Rodman who mainly got his points off of dunks or second shot opportunities. However Artest does have a similar mentality with Rodman when he is on the floor which is to never give up on plays and hustle his heart out whenever the ball is up for grabs.

As for the Chicago question let me answer. It's a certainty that Harper had to change his game majorly whereas Rodman didn't really change anything from his Pistons and Spurs days to his Bulls days. But that doesn't mean that Artest is either the offensive thread Harper was in his pre-bulls days or the incompetent offensive dude Rodman was. He's somewhere in the middle and that's why I said he won't have to change his game very much, because he never was the go to guy on any team he has been.

As for him controlling the ball and creating for the teams he was in I can remember his Indiana days when he wasn't the main ball handler or shot creator. It was JO and Miller that did the scoring there and Tinsley who controlled the ball. That don't mean Artest was a nobody but he certainly wasn't THE man either (not until his 03-04 season at least).

Either way, he certainly will have less shot opportunities with Kobe and Gasol on his team, I'm not debating that. I just never saw him as a hands down scorer either but rather a good and reliable 3rd string guy on offense for his teams (except when he was in Sacto where he was arguably their second best scorer so he did score plenty).

Originally Posted by тояоито яаρтσяѕ

imagine this 5 on the floor together

PG - Kobe
SG - Ron
SF - Odom
PF - Gasol
C - Bynum

oh my gooddness

PG - Payton
SG - Bryant
SF - George
PF - Malone
C - Shaq

6th Man - Derek Fisher

Dream line up right? Had it not been for a Kobe improbable three they would've been swept in the Finals.

Point is, no matter how good a team is on paper, the game is played on the court and teams stacked with stars don't always ammount to a chip.

[Imadogg]

Originally Posted by arlubas

PG - Payton
SG - Bryant
SF - George
PF - Malone
C - Shaq

6th Man - Derek Fisher

Dream line up right? Had it not been for a Kobe improbable three they would've been swept in the Finals.

Point is, no matter how good a team is on paper, the game is played on the court and teams stacked with stars don't always ammount to a chip.

It should've won it all though. It took a Malone injury and Kobe shooting for Finals MVP to lose it. We have a different Kobe now and injuries are the biggest concern for us.

But of course I know what you mean, and the Lakers this year don't have the only dreamy lineup. Old Spurs, Cavs, and Magic already were good and got better, and the gay Celts are trying.

[gold_leader64]

Originally Posted by Chronz

Kevin Pelton's thought on the switch

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=273
The worst thing that can happen in the triangle is for the ball to stop in one place. That’s justified for Bryant, but not for Artest. Optimistically, Bryant and Phil Jackson will be able to keep Artest’s worst tendencies in check, but pessimistically he could work against much of what the Lakers are trying to do on offense.

The success of the Los Angeles Lakers’ signing of Ron Artest, first reported in a major coup by CBSSportsline.com’s Ken Berger, all comes down to possessions. As in, will Artest be willing and able to use fewer of them? Artest was essentially dealt for incumbent small forward Trevor Ariza, which may be formalized if Ariza ends up signing with the Rockets to replace Artest. Last year, Ariza used 16.7 percent of the Lakers’ possessions while on the floor. Artest used 24.7 percent of Houston’s possessions, and has been over 23 percent every year since 2002-03.

If Artest plays to his tendencies, it’s hard to see where those possessions would come from, especially when he is on the floor alongside the high-possession Bryant. I’m of the belief that possession usage is in many ways as much a skill as anything else, not something that can be largely dictated by coaches. Using a ton of possessions is in Artest’s DNA just as much as physical defense or crazy quotes.

This would be OK if Artest was more efficient with said possessions, but his 51.2 percent True Shooting is well below average (and below Ariza’s 54.4 percent mark from last season, which he upped in the playoffs when he improbably developed into a lights-out three-point shooter). The Lakers are trading more efficient possessions from Ariza and other players for less efficient ones.

Wait...what?

"That’s justified for Bryant, but not for Artest. "

Kobe has a considerable amount of poor shooting nights, but he takes far more and it has a larger impact on the game. When he shoots 8-27, it hurts more than a 3-13 effort. I don't see what the big deal is. The difference is Ron isn't going to jack up 20-30 shots at 30-40%. Gasol, the second option last season, only got 13 FGA per game, and that was with the Lakers ignoring him in the offense. So I doubt Ron gets 13+ FG's per game. If Andy is healthy, and Odom returns, the touches will balance out and I doubt Artest will have that many opportunities to screw up the offense. Phil won't let that happen.

[тояоито яаρтσяѕ]

Originally Posted by arlubas

PG - Payton
SG - Bryant
SF - George
PF - Malone
C - Shaq

6th Man - Derek Fisher

Dream line up right? Had it not been for a Kobe improbable three they would've been swept in the Finals.

Point is, no matter how good a team is on paper, the game is played on the court and teams stacked with stars don't always ammount to a chip.

George wasn't niice, and Payton+Malone were in the final year or 2 of their careers. Where as these players are in their prime and on top of their games

[Zero Requiem]

Originally Posted by тояоито яаρтσяѕ

George wasn't niice, and Payton+Malone were in the final year or 2 of their careers. Where as these players are in their prime and on top of their games

you forgot to add that kobe and shaq refused to pass to eachother unless it was demanding. The Glove aka the MIT around that time, hated the triangle and always battled with phil and his way of thinking. Malone got hurt so that was a big factor.

tensions raised when we get to the finals that year, because we did ok in the playoffs and in the season.