Manning vs. Brady

[sportsrule90]

Originally Posted by Milan

Going to a Super Bowl means nothing lol...he's won 3.

I mean Rex Grossman made the Super Bowl couple years ago and we know how great he really was...

[supermanhoward12]

Tom Brady, to me he's the best QB in this league and maybe even the best player. The man is a great passer, you can always count on him. Really clutch, and I believe he's a 2 time superbowl MVP.

To me Manning has some time to come, more of a deep passer if you know what I mean. His team chokes a lot also.

[Milan]

Originally Posted by sportsrule90

I mean Rex Grossman made the Super Bowl couple years ago and we know how great he really was...

You don't even need a great QB to win the Super Bowl. That's why I hate the 'Brady has 3 Super Bowls' argument. The Bears got to that Super Bowl pretty much off defense (Thomas Jones also played well that year if I remember.)

He really shouldn't have 2 SB MVPs either.

[sportsrule90]

Originally Posted by Milan

You don't even need a great QB to win the Super Bowl. That's why I hate the 'Brady has 3 Super Bowls' argument. The Bears got to that Super Bowl pretty much off defense (Thomas Jones also played well that year if I remember.)

He really shouldn't have 2 SB MVPs either.

I disagree with your first sentence. QB is the most important position on a football team, which is why most managers build or built their team around a QB. Thus, most top draft picks are QBs. Usually QBs get criticize the most by the media, fans, and even coaches because it's not the WRs fault for a dropped pass, but a QBs fault, even though that's wrong technically. QBs get the most attention and it's on their shoulders when the team falters. IF you don't have a good QB, you aren't going to win a SB. Plain and simple. Look at the past history of SB champions, all great QBs if you don't believe me. Rex Grossman sucks, which is a main reason why the Bears didn't win the Super Bowl. I do agree with you though on winning though. It's all about rings in the end, not appearances. Brady must be doing something right if he has 3 SBs. He's clutch at most times when it counts.

However, you can go both ways with Brady and Manning. There are so many reasons in favor or against either of these players that it's hard to pick one player who is better RIGHT NOW. I'll wait till these players retire and then decide which one had the better careeer. Nonetheless, these 2 players should be in the HOF in the future. When it's all said and done, they will be 2 of the best QBs ever if not the top 2 QBS.

[markk_408]

brady has a chance for the GOAT of QBs.
hes the only one in the league with that credibility, sorry haters .

[American Idiot]

Eli of course!

[Milan]

Originally Posted by sportsrule90

I disagree with your first sentence. QB is the most important position on a football team, which is why most managers build or built their team around a QB. Thus, most top draft picks are QBs. Usually QBs get criticize the most by the media, fans, and even coaches because it's not the WRs fault for a dropped pass, but a QBs fault, even though that's wrong technically. QBs get the most attention and it's on their shoulders when the team falters. IF you don't have a good QB, you aren't going to win a SB. Plain and simple. Look at the past history of SB champions, all great QBs if you don't believe me. Rex Grossman sucks, which is a main reason why the Bears didn't win the Super Bowl. I do agree with you though on winning though. It's all about rings in the end, not appearances. Brady must be doing something right if he has 3 SBs. He's clutch at most times when it counts.

However, you can go both ways with Brady and Manning. There are so many reasons in favor or against either of these players that it's hard to pick one player who is better RIGHT NOW. I'll wait till these players retire and then decide which one had the better careeer. Nonetheless, these 2 players should be in the HOF in the future. When it's all said and done, they will be 2 of the best QBs ever if not the top 2 QBS.

I'm not questioning Brady's greatness or that he's a huge part of the team but he's not the sole reason, the defense has been top 10, if not top 5 every year the Pats have been in the Super Bowl.

Since 2000, Trent Dilfer, Ben Roethlisberger, Brad Johnson and Eli Manning have won the Super Bowl. None are great QBs, all had amazing defenses. You can make a case for Ben Roethlisberger being an upper-level QB but he's had one really good season and that's about it.

Then there's other QBs that have made it to the Super Bowl in this decade but lost:
Rex Grossman, Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Delhomme, Rich Gannon, Kerry Collins, Chris Chandler.

It doesn't take a great QB to get you to a championship, it certainly helps but it's a team accomplishment, there's no way rings should be used to say someone is better than another person. If Brady was on the Detroit Lions would he have a ring? How about Manning? If not, then the rings are void because the teams around them were overall better than most others.

I disagree about the QB being the most important part of a team, the OL (especially the LT for a right handed QB) can make an average QB look good.

Originally Posted by markk_408

brady has a chance for the GOAT of QBs.
hes the only one in the league with that credibility, sorry haters .

It would be great if you provided some rebuttal to my arguments instead of calling me a hater.

[sportsrule90]

Originally Posted by Milan

I'm not questioning Brady's greatness or that he's a huge part of the team but he's not the sole reason, the defense has been top 10, if not top 5 every year the Pats have been in the Super Bowl.

Oh okay, now it makes much more sense. I thought you were degrading Brady's greatness.

Since 2000, Trent Dilfer, Ben Roethlisberger, Brad Johnson and Eli Manning have won the Super Bowl. None are great QBs, all had amazing defenses. You can make a case for Ben Roethlisberger being an upper-level QB but he's had one really good season and that's about it.

Here's the thing though, they might not "WOW" you in terms of stats like Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, but at the end of the day, they get the job done, which is winning. Stats aren't the only thing that can help determine which QBs are great. Winning is an important thing too imo. These QBs know what to do under pressure during crunch time, which makes them great QBS imo. I'm not taking the fact away the defense did help these QBs a lot, but they aren't always going to score too, the offense needs to score obviously too. For example, Dilfer led his team in the 2nd half to 7-1 record and a perfect postseason. His stats in the SB-153 yards, 1 TD. He didn't need to do much since it was a blowout, managed the game well with NO TOs. Another example is Eli Manning. He led his team to a game winning TD drive in the final seconds against possibly the best team EVER. His poise and leadership helped him become a great QB. I'm not saying these are the best of the best QBs, but they are pretty damn good.

It doesn't take a great QB to get you to a championship, it certainly helps but it's a team accomplishment, there's no way rings should be used to say someone is better than another person. If Brady was on the Detroit Lions would he have a ring? How about Manning? If not, then the rings are void because the teams around them were overall better than most others.

Obviously it's a team effort, but I'm just saying a QB is an important factor for a SB championship team.

I disagree about the QB being the most important part of a team, the OL (especially the LT for a right handed QB) can make an average QB look good.

A great QB can make an average WR look good as well.

[Milan]

Originally Posted by sportsrule90

Here's the thing though, they might not "WOW" you in terms of stats like Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, but at the end of the day, they get the job done, which is winning. Stats aren't the only thing that can help determine which QBs are great. Winning is an important thing too imo. These QBs know what to do under pressure during crunch time, which makes them great QBS imo. I'm not taking the fact away the defense did help these QBs a lot, but they aren't always going to score too, the offense needs to score obviously too. For example, Dilfer led his team in the 2nd half to 7-1 record and a perfect postseason. His stats in the SB-153 yards, 1 TD. He didn't need to do much since it was a blowout, managed the game well with NO TOs. Another example is Eli Manning. He led his team to a game winning TD drive in the final seconds against possibly the best team EVER. His poise and leadership helped him become a great QB. I'm not saying these are the best of the best QBs, but they are pretty damn good.

I don't want my QBs playing well 'when it counts'. I want my QBs playing well all game. I don't want them digging me into a hole for the first three quarters then getting me out of it. I want a QB that can lead me to a win through all four quarters of a game.

The stats you mentioned about Dilfer, yeah, he didn't need to do much because his team wasn't there because of him. They were riding one of the best defenses ever to the Super Bowl. You can't attribute that win at all to Trent Dilfer, same as you can't attribute Super Bowl XXXVI all to Brady...I mean, hell, he led a 40 yard drive to the Rams 40 yard line while the Rams were in prevent quarters defense. That's basically his only accomplishment that game and he won MVP for some reason. QBs get way too much of the credit for their team's wins and at the same time share way too much blame for the losses.

[sportsrule90]

Originally Posted by Milan

I don't want my QBs playing well 'when it counts'. I want my QBs playing well all game. I don't want them digging me into a hole for the first three quarters then getting me out of it. I want a QB that can lead me to a win through all four quarters of a game.

They played well throughout the game, I just gave you the moments when these qbs played EXTREMELY well.

The stats you mentioned about Dilfer, yeah, he didn't need to do much because his team wasn't there because of him. They were riding one of the best defenses ever to the Super Bowl. You can't attribute that win at all to Trent Dilfer, same as you can't attribute Super Bowl XXXVI all to Brady...I mean, hell, he led a 40 yard drive to the Rams 40 yard line while the Rams were in prevent quarters defense. That's basically his only accomplishment that game and he won MVP for some reason. QBs get way too much of the credit for their team's wins and at the same time share way too much blame for the losses.

You can NOT give no credit to Dilfer. Yeah, the defense was amazing, but you do have to give somewhat credit to Dilfer. He must be doing something right as QB for having a 11-1 record including playoffs because the defense doesn't play the whole game obviously. Tom Brady marched down the field with no timeouts to help the Patriots win the game and he was CLUTCH under pressure in the biggest game of their life. Not many QBs can do what he did in that game..that takes some skill. He was the youngest QB at that time to win the SB MVP too. He deserves the MVP with that drive of the game. I do agree with your last sentence to a certain extent because the media has to blame somebody for the loss for news and entertainment and publicity for that matter, it's all about pointing fingers and saying it wasn't not my fault..so who better than the QB to take the blame.